This is the archive site for the pioneering blog CamWorld.com, which is no longer maintained.
Cameron Barrett's personal site can now be found at cameron.barrett.org and his professional site can be found at cameronbarrett.com.

June 17, 2003

Patriot Act at the Bank

I was at my bank today opening a second checking account so I can keep my personal finances separate from my business finances and I ran right into the Patriot Act. Over the years I've opened any number of accounts with different banks and I've never run into a process quite so blatant.

When the account representative started asking me questions like "How much do you expect to deposit each month?" and "How many wire transfers do you expect to make each month?" the red flags started to go off in my head. I said, "I don't recall being asked these questions two years ago when i opened my current account." She replied, "We are required by law now to ask these questions and get answers for every new account. If we don't get the answers the account does not get opened." And then she added, "This is part of the Patriot Act." Aha!

I had no problem at all giving her my estimates for the checking account I was opening but I was pretty surprised that the U.S. government is now requiring banks to share such information with them and prohibiting them from opening new accounts without it. I understand why they are making it a requirement in the fight against terrorism but I am quite worried that the information they are collecting may be used for other purposes.

In the meantime, there's no limit to how much cash I can store under my mattress. The only question now is, Dollars or Euros?

Posted by Cameron Barrett at June 17, 2003 11:50 PM
Comments

I am quite worried that the information they are collecting may be used for other purposes.

How so? Just curious what you are concerned about.


Posted by: Jason Fried at June 18, 2003 10:21 AM

The bad thing about storing it under your mattress is that, if it becomes the de facto banking choice (a little alarmist of me, maybe), our economy is in store for a serious slump.

That, and, depending on under whose mattress you put it, and their age and/or drinking habits, it might not smell so good.


Posted by: Muraii at June 18, 2003 12:45 PM

I wonder how the backers of the Patriot Act feel about gun control? My instinct is that they probably are more concerned about the rights of gun owners than the privacy rights of the public.


Posted by: Mike at June 18, 2003 01:36 PM

I wonder how the backers of the Patriot Act feel about gun control? My instinct is that they probably are more concerned about the rights of gun owners than the privacy rights of the public. If gun purchasers were asked these same questions, the NRA would be squawkin'


Posted by: Mike at June 18, 2003 01:38 PM

What a crock. What happens when you tell them X and you end up doing Y? Do they cancel your account or bust down your door for maliciously lying to a bank rep.


Posted by: chris at June 18, 2003 01:42 PM

No, actually "the backers of" USA PATRIOT ACT are for gun control. Some republicans pay lip service to it every now and then but when it comes down to it private firearm ownership is a threat to their power, as it's a threat to any politician's power. This is why we still have the assault weapons ban.


Posted by: Lamp at June 18, 2003 02:27 PM

What's to stop you from giving them false information? I guess you'd have to know what they were going to ask up front or be quick on your mental feet.

It's not like the government is worried about valid data, as that flap about completely wrong info in that national crime database showed.


Posted by: Bill Brown at June 18, 2003 03:40 PM

Truthfully, I bet you the rules of the Patriot Act have caught (or at least pointed the FBI in the direction of) a lot more people involved in the Mob than it has terrorism.
I feel that terrorists can just as easily (and probably with better ROI considering the rollercoaster of a market we are in) launder their money in countries than in the USA.


Posted by: Erik at June 18, 2003 07:59 PM

I thought about giving them false info, but I have nothing to hide so I figured it was OK. I did mention to the representative that I probably should just instruct her to put down $000 for every answer, but I realized that doing that would just look suspicious - exactly the kind of thing the Patriot Act is set up to flag.


Posted by: Cam at June 18, 2003 08:04 PM

I'd go for euros. They're going up against the dollar, you know.
And now, sincerely... how long until americans start coming to Europe asking for political asylum?


Posted by: JJ at June 19, 2003 12:14 PM

It is pretty scary when you are asked more questions to open a checking account than to buy a gun. And I'm sure that these laws will ultimately be used to catch people for all sorts of other crimes (money laundering, tax evasion, too small donations to GOP campaign funds) under the guise of hunting terrorists. Ashcroft really scares me and I want to see Bush in large part to see Ashcrost sent packing.


Posted by: Benjy at June 19, 2003 12:24 PM

Here in Brazil things are much easier.You just gotta have a reasonable salary and you can get an account opened any time.


Posted by: Deivis at June 21, 2003 10:21 PM

I once saw on the news a man who stored his life savings under a mattress, unfortunately over time the cash (which was organized into blocks and tied with string) began to deteriorate. When he went to take it in and get it counted, a lot of the bills were fused together with mold, and most were just destroyed. Makes you think twice about shoving em in there, Patriot Act or not!

Though, seriously if you'd rather not place your money in the bank (and there's nothing wrong with making that choice), you may want to invest in a good, sturdy safe, or a waterproof briefcase. To be honest, a briefcase may actually be safer, because noone really expects there to be money inside (except in really bad movies). Make sure it's waterproof, so that you don't end up with moldy money, because most restaurants and retail outlets are somewhat anti-mold. ;-)


Posted by: Kerri at June 22, 2003 12:07 PM

Or you can always use an Internet-only bank based in Latvia, for instance.


Posted by: JJ at June 22, 2003 05:19 PM

I'd sooner trust the gov't w/ my info than an internet-only bank based in Latvia, frankly.


Posted by: HJ at June 23, 2003 01:44 AM

You'd not giving them your info, just your money. Make that US Virgin Islands or Bermuda, if you feel a bit queasy about ex-bolcheviks.


Posted by: JJ at June 23, 2003 10:32 AM

I just opened up a checking account at a Credit Union, and wasn't asked any such questions. I wonder if it's only with banks?


Posted by: mkelley at June 23, 2003 11:39 AM

In January of 2003 I opened a new checking and savings account at a Los Angeles branch of a major bank, and I was asked no such questions.


Posted by: Chuck at June 23, 2003 02:44 PM

Maybe they just ask questions to those that have been profiled by their face-recognition software. Or who are known bloggers, for that matter.
"Um, Cameron Barret... isn't that the guy that writes that weblog thingy? Um... "


Posted by: JJ at June 23, 2003 07:56 PM

I ran across another problem, now it takes about 2 minutes longer to cash a check because my first name is Mohhomad and the bank has to check my name against a terrorist database to make sure they don't have to freeze my funds. Terrific.


Posted by: Jacob P at June 24, 2003 10:51 PM

Could be worse if you are dark-skinned, bearded. They would X-Ray you. From within. :-)


Posted by: JJ at June 25, 2003 02:57 PM